Book of Mormon Gospel Topics - Latter Day Saints

Church Organization Completed - March 30, 1836

LDS Summary

The LDS states they have changed the church organization since Joseph Smith Jr set the organization in 1836

RLDS Summary

The RLDS states they have not changed the church organization since Joseph Smith Jr set the organization in 1836

Church History Comparison: Both the LDS and RLDS history are in complete agreement that Joseph Smith Jr. stated on March 30, 1836 that the church organization was complete and no more changes were required.
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Volume 2, page 432 March 30, 1836, ... I then observed to the quorums, that I had now completed the organization of the Church, and we had passed through all the necessary ceremonies, that I had given them all the instruction they needed, and that they now were at liberty, after obtaining their licenses, to go forth and build up the Kingdom of God, ...	RLDS Journal of History, Vol 18, page 177 March 30, 1836, ... I then observed to the quorums that I had now completed the organization of the church, and we had passed through all the necessary ceremonies, that I had given them all the instructions they needed, and that they now were at liberty, after obtaining their licenses, to go forth and build up the Kingdom of God, ...

Church History Comparison:

Both the LDS and RLDS history are in complete agreement that Joseph Smith Jr. stated on March 30, 1836 that the church organization was complete and no more changes were required.

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Volume 2, page 432
March 30, 1836, ... I then observed to the quorums, that I had now completed the organization of the Church, and we had passed through all the necessary ceremonies, that I had given them all the instruction they needed, and that they now were at liberty, after obtaining their licenses, to go forth and build up the Kingdom of God, ...

RLDS Journal of History, Vol 18, page 177
March 30, 1836, ... I then observed to the quorums that I had now completed the organization of the church, and we had passed through all the necessary ceremonies, that I had given them all the instructions they needed, and that they now were at liberty, after obtaining their licenses, to go forth and build up the Kingdom of God, ...

April 6, 1874 Orson Pratt specified the organization of the Church could only be done by revelation and "man is utterly unable to organize the Kingdom of God on the earth"
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, page. 24 Forty-four years ago today, the Kingdom of God was organized on this earth, for the last time, never to be broken up, never to be confounded or thrown down, but to continue from that time, henceforth and forever. This kingdom was not organized by man, nor by the wisdom of man, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ, he having guided and directed, by revelation, everything in regard to its organization, and bestowed authority upon his servants to perform the work, and they being only agents or instruments in his hands. All other Christian denominations for many long centuries, have been organized without revelation. The organizers of these various denominations did not even pretend that God had given them any information from Heaven; they did not even pretend that there was one sentence which had been received in their day from the Lord, in relation to the organization of their institutions. In this respect the Latter-day Saints differ widely from all Christian denominations! It is an essential difference, a peculiar characteristic, and one of the utmost importance. Every person with a little reflection, can see that without divine information, man is utterly unable to organize the Kingdom of God on the earth.

April 6, 1874

Orson Pratt specified the organization of the Church could only be done by revelation and "man is utterly unable to organize the Kingdom of God on the earth"

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, page. 24
Forty-four years ago today, the Kingdom of God was organized on this earth, for the last time, never to be broken up, never to be confounded or thrown down, but to continue from that time, henceforth and forever. This kingdom was not organized by man, nor by the wisdom of man, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ, he having guided and directed, by revelation, everything in regard to its organization, and bestowed authority upon his servants to perform the work, and they being only agents or instruments in his hands.

All other Christian denominations for many long centuries, have been organized without revelation. The organizers of these various denominations did not even pretend that God had given them any information from Heaven; they did not even pretend that there was one sentence which had been received in their day from the Lord, in relation to the organization of their institutions. In this respect the Latter-day Saints differ widely from all Christian denominations! It is an essential difference, a peculiar characteristic, and one of the utmost importance.

Every person with a little reflection, can see that without divine information, man is utterly unable to organize the Kingdom of God on the earth.

April 6, 1876 John Taylor explains the organization of the LDS Church as having Apostles in the First Presidency - note: no Apostles were ever in the First Presidency in the early church.
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 18, page 197 These, then, as I understand them, are things of very great importance to the Latter-day Saints, for it is to them that I am speaking this afternoon. We have an organization in our Church as they had in former times. We are told that in the days of Jesus on the Asiatic continent, "God placed in his Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, afterwards Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists," etc.; and we are, moreover, told that these were placed in the Church “for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, until we all come in the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the fullness of the measure of the stature of Christ, that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, but that we may grow up into him who is our living head in all things,” that we may indeed be like him, one with him as he is one with the Father. This is the kind of principles that they had then, and this the kind of organization. What have we? Something very similar. We have Apostles and a First Presidency. What are the members of the First Presidency? Apostles. We have an organization of the Twelve, as they had then...

April 6, 1876

John Taylor explains the organization of the LDS Church as having Apostles in the First Presidency - note: no Apostles were ever in the First Presidency in the early church.

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 18, page 197
These, then, as I understand them, are things of very great importance to the Latter-day Saints, for it is to them that I am speaking this afternoon. We have an organization in our Church as they had in former times. We are told that in the days of Jesus on the Asiatic continent, "God placed in his Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, afterwards Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists," etc.; and we are, moreover, told that these were placed in the Church “for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, until we all come in the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the fullness of the measure of the stature of Christ, that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, but that we may grow up into him who is our living head in all things,” that we may indeed be like him, one with him as he is one with the Father.

This is the kind of principles that they had then, and this the kind of organization. What have we? Something very similar. We have Apostles and a First Presidency. What are the members of the First Presidency? Apostles. We have an organization of the Twelve, as they had then...

May 20, 1877 Orson Pratt states that Church Organization is based on circumstances
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 19, pages 10-11 Then he determined, still further, that there should be a sufficiency given from year to year, during the lifetime of the Prophet Joseph, to know how to properly organize the Church. These further revelations were published in the Doctrine and Covenants. These having been given as a pattern, for the commencement of the organization, the Lord has seen proper to withhold, for the time being, the giving of additional sacred records, that the Saints might show their faith. "I will try the faith of my people, I will see whether they will be obedient to my commandments, and the laws which I have revealed to them. If they will be faithful-if they will practice upon that which I have given, then shall the greater things be made manifest to them." Consequently, you perceive that God has not forsaken us, the spirit of revelation has been with us. But then it has not been wisdom in God, that all this revelation should be written and published; because many things the servants of God are inspired to do under one set of circumstances, would not be required of them, under a new condition of circumstances; hence, such revelations would not become a standing law for all future time. For instance, in order to form new settlements, the circumstances are very different from what they are after you have enlarged your settlements and become numerous in population, and other duties become necessary. Consequently the Lord has imparted a little here, and a little there, and instructed and counseled the people, through his servants, what should be done in the incipient stages, or in the forming of settlements, in this mountain region.

May 20, 1877

Orson Pratt states that Church Organization is based on circumstances

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 19, pages 10-11
Then he determined, still further, that there should be a sufficiency given from year to year, during the lifetime of the Prophet Joseph, to know how to properly organize the Church. These further revelations were published in the Doctrine and Covenants. These having been given as a pattern, for the commencement of the organization, the Lord has seen proper to withhold, for the time being, the giving of additional sacred records, that the Saints might show their faith. "I will try the faith of my people, I will see whether they will be obedient to my commandments, and the laws which I have revealed to them. If they will be faithful-if they will practice upon that which I have given, then shall the greater things be made manifest to them."

Consequently, you perceive that God has not forsaken us, the spirit of revelation has been with us. But then it has not been wisdom in God, that all this revelation should be written and published; because many things the servants of God are inspired to do under one set of circumstances, would not be required of them, under a new condition of circumstances; hence, such revelations would not become a standing law for all future time. For instance, in order to form new settlements, the circumstances are very different from what they are after you have enlarged your settlements and become numerous in population, and other duties become necessary. Consequently the Lord has imparted a little here, and a little there, and instructed and counseled the people, through his servants, what should be done in the incipient stages, or in the forming of settlements, in this mountain region.

July 18, 1877 The LDS perspective is that the Church organization is never completed.
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
Deseret News Weekly, July 18, 1877, page 2, columns 2 to 4 Discourse Delivered by Orson Pratt at a Special Conference at Logan, on Sunday Morning, May 20th, 1877 To say that there will be a stated time, in the history of this Church, during its imperfections and weaknesses, when the organization will be perfect, and that there will be no further extension or addition to the organization, would be a mistake. Organization is to go on, step after step, from one degree to another, just as the people increase and grow in the knowledge of the principles and laws of the Kingdom of God, and as their borders shall extend.

July 18, 1877

The LDS perspective is that the Church organization is never completed.

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

Deseret News Weekly, July 18, 1877, page 2, columns 2 to 4
Discourse Delivered by Orson Pratt at a Special Conference at Logan, on Sunday Morning, May 20th, 1877

To say that there will be a stated time, in the history of this Church, during its imperfections and weaknesses, when the organization will be perfect, and that there will be no further extension or addition to the organization, would be a mistake. Organization is to go on, step after step, from one degree to another, just as the people increase and grow in the knowledge of the principles and laws of the Kingdom of God, and as their borders shall extend.

October 10, 1880 John Taylor specified the organization of the LDS Church was finished (again)
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page. 38 I will make a few remarks while the Sacrament is being administered. It is gratifying to me to be able to state that now all the various organizations of the Church are provided for. For some time the Twelve have been operating in the capacity of a First Presidency, and it was very proper that they should have acted in that capacity. As you heard Brother Pratt state this morning, in referring to this subject, this was the course adopted at the time when the Prophet Joseph Smith left us. The Twelve then stepped forward into the position of the First Presidency, and operated for about three years in that capacity. And when President Young left us it was thought proper that the same course should be pursued. The Twelve, I believe, have in this respect magnified their calling and taken a course that is approved by the Lord, and I think also by the brethren, judging from the vote given here today. Had it not been our duty to have the Church organized fully and completely in all its departments, I should have much preferred to have continued with the brethren of the Twelve, speaking of it merely as a matter of personal feeling. But there are questions arising in regard to these matters that are not for us to say how they shall be, or what course shall be pursued. When God has given us an order and has appointed an organization in his Church, with the various quorums of Priesthood as presented to us by revelation through the Prophet Joseph Smith, I do not think that either the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Priests, the Seventies, the Bishops, or anybody else, have a right to change or alter that plan which the Lord has introduced and established. And as you heard Brother Pratt state this morning, one duty devolving upon the Twelve is to see that the churches are organized correctly. And I think they are now thus organized throughout the land of Zion. The Churches generally are organized with Presidents of Stakes and their Counselors, with High Councils, with Bishops and their Counselors, and with the Lesser Priesthood, according to the order that is given us.

October 10, 1880

John Taylor specified the organization of the LDS Church was finished (again)

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page. 38
I will make a few remarks while the Sacrament is being administered. It is gratifying to me to be able to state that now all the various organizations of the Church are provided for. For some time the Twelve have been operating in the capacity of a First Presidency, and it was very proper that they should have acted in that capacity. As you heard Brother Pratt state this morning, in referring to this subject, this was the course adopted at the time when the Prophet Joseph Smith left us. The Twelve then stepped forward into the position of the First Presidency, and operated for about three years in that capacity. And when President Young left us it was thought proper that the same course should be pursued. The Twelve, I believe, have in this respect magnified their calling and taken a course that is approved by the Lord, and I think also by the brethren, judging from the vote given here today.

Had it not been our duty to have the Church organized fully and completely in all its departments, I should have much preferred to have continued with the brethren of the Twelve, speaking of it merely as a matter of personal feeling. But there are questions arising in regard to these matters that are not for us to say how they shall be, or what course shall be pursued. When God has given us an order and has appointed an organization in his Church, with the various quorums of Priesthood as presented to us by revelation through the Prophet Joseph Smith, I do not think that either the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Priests, the Seventies, the Bishops, or anybody else, have a right to change or alter that plan which the Lord has introduced and established. And as you heard Brother Pratt state this morning, one duty devolving upon the Twelve is to see that the churches are organized correctly. And I think they are now thus organized throughout the land of Zion. The Churches generally are organized with Presidents of Stakes and their Counselors, with High Councils, with Bishops and their Counselors, and with the Lesser Priesthood, according to the order that is given us.

April 11, 1884 The RLDS re-affirmed that they adhere to the original Church organization as far as the commandments given during the original Church were re-iterated after Joseph Smith Jr.'s death.
LDS	RLDS / Restoration
	RLDS General Conference Resolution 282 No. 282. That it is the sense of this quorum that the commandments of a local character, given to the first organization of the church are binding on the Reorganization, only so far as they are either reiterated, or referred to as binding by commandment to this church. Example Application: General Conference Resolution 308.4, approved April 9,1886 4. 'Baptism for the dead' referred to belongs to those local questions of which the body has said by resolution: 'That the commandments of a local character, given to the first organization of the church are binding on the Reorganization only so far as they are either reiterated or referred to as binding by commandment to this church:' And that principle has neither been reiterated nor referred to as a commandment.

April 11, 1884

The RLDS re-affirmed that they adhere to the original Church organization as far as the commandments given during the original Church were re-iterated after Joseph Smith Jr.'s death.

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

RLDS General Conference Resolution 282
No. 282. That it is the sense of this quorum that the commandments of a local character, given to the first organization of the church are binding on the Reorganization, only so far as they are either reiterated, or referred to as binding by commandment to this church.

Example Application: General Conference Resolution 308.4, approved April 9,1886
4. 'Baptism for the dead' referred to belongs to those local questions of which the body has said by resolution: 'That the commandments of a local character, given to the first organization of the church are binding on the Reorganization only so far as they are either reiterated or referred to as binding by commandment to this church:' And that principle has neither been reiterated nor referred to as a commandment.

Latter Day Saints - What do they Truly Believe (about the Church Organization)?

Church Organization Completed - March 30, 1836

LDS Summary

RLDS Summary

Church History Comparison:

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

April 6, 1874

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

April 6, 1876

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

May 20, 1877

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

July 18, 1877

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

October 10, 1880

LDS

RLDS / Restoration

April 11, 1884

LDS

RLDS / Restoration