Rapture - Part 3 - Book of Mormon Gospel Topics

Believers Removed? Multiple Topics Believers remain on Earth?

Index of Scriptures used in Part 3

Verses

Daniel 12:1-2
Psalm 50:3-5
Isaiah 13:9-13
Joel 2:1-4
Mathhew 13:25-30
Mark 13:24-27
John 2:16, 19-21
John 5:28-29
John 6:40, 44, 54
John 11:23-24
John 14:2-4
John 15:5-6
1 Corinthians 15:20-25
1 Corinthians 15:50-53
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 5:1-9, 23
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, 6-10
2 Peter 3:10-14
Revelation 1:5, 7

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions : if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: John 14:1-4 is used to prove that mansions are created in Heaven, therefore people must be taken to heaven (raptured) to populate the mansions. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Answer: Read John 14:3 carefully. In it, it states that... Jesus will come again (His second coming is descending from Heaven to Earth), Then receive the believers where He is (on Earth or as He is descending) The Greek word for "receive" is . It is also translated as "to take". So, here we have a restatement of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The word "caught up" (in 1 Thess 4:17) means "to pluck" and is in the same related group of words as . >mark>Both John 14:3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:17 state that Jesus will return to Earth and "pluck" or "take" those that remain at His return and bring them to Him (when He is on Earth). John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions : if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. The Greek word for mansions is used in one other verse, also in John 14. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. The Old Testament states in 234 verses that the house of the Lord was the tabernacle and then the temple that was on Mount Zion. In the New Testament, Jesus states that the temple is transitioned now to His body. John 2:16 And [Jesus] said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body. After John 14, John 15 confirms that we will abide in Jesus John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. The mansions are us as we abide in Jesus, and we will be with Him on Earth after His second coming. To state that the mansions are in heaven is incorrect, ergo, using John 14:2-4 to justify a pretribulation rapture is incorrect.

John
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions : if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: John 14:1-4 is used to prove that mansions are created in Heaven, therefore people must be taken to heaven (raptured) to populate the mansions.

John
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Answer: Read John 14:3 carefully. In it, it states that...

Jesus will come again (His second coming is descending from Heaven to Earth),
Then receive the believers where He is (on Earth or as He is descending)
The Greek word for "receive" is . It is also translated as "to take". So, here we have a restatement of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The word "caught up" (in 1 Thess 4:17) means "to pluck" and is in the same related group of words as .
>mark>Both John 14:3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:17 state that Jesus will return to Earth and "pluck" or "take" those that remain at His return and bring them to Him (when He is on Earth).

John
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions : if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The Greek word for mansions is used in one other verse, also in John 14.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

The Old Testament states in 234 verses that the house of the Lord was the tabernacle and then the temple that was on Mount Zion. In the New Testament, Jesus states that the temple is transitioned now to His body.
John 2:16 And [Jesus] said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

After John 14, John 15 confirms that we will abide in Jesus

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

The mansions are us as we abide in Jesus, and we will be with Him on Earth after His second coming. To state that the mansions are in heaven is incorrect, ergo, using John 14:2-4 to justify a pretribulation rapture is incorrect.

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification
Part 1 Daniel 12 Obadiah 1 Matthew 13:27-40 Matthew 20:2-9 Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22) Matthew 24:37-39 Part 2 Matthew 24:28-41 Luke 17:26-37 Matthew 24:42-51 Luke 12:37-49 Matthew 25:1-13 John 10:9-10 Matthew 25:31-33 Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15) John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7 Ephesians 3:3-7 1 John 2:23 Jeremiah 31:35-37 Romans 11:17-22 Romans 1:16 Romans 2:8-11 Romans 10:11-13 Matthew 20:2-14> Acts 10:34-35 Part 3 John 14:2-4

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification

Part 1

Daniel 12
Obadiah 1
Matthew 13:27-40
Matthew 20:2-9
Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22)
Matthew 24:37-39

Part 2

Matthew 24:28-41
Luke 17:26-37
Matthew 24:42-51
Luke 12:37-49
Matthew 25:1-13
John 10:9-10
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15)
John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7
Ephesians 3:3-7
1 John 2:23
Jeremiah 31:35-37
Romans 11:17-22
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:8-11
Romans 10:11-13
Matthew 20:2-14>
Acts 10:34-35

Part 3

John 14:2-4

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming . 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: In 1 Corinthians 15:23, Christ will come for His bride and take His saints to Heaven. Answer: The Greek word parousia (Strong's G3952) means "the coming, arrival, advent". It is the word that is accepted as the future visible return from heaven of Jesus. So, the setting for 15:23 is Jesus' Second Coming. Delivering up the Kingdom occurs after the millennial reign, so these verses are a very high level summary of the timeline from His resurrection to His Second Coming to the end judgment. The "they that are Christ's at his coming" in 15:23 refers to the Second Coming and the events at the Second Coming have believers resurrected and gathered with those believers still alive into the air as Jesus is descending, but not all the way to Heaven (see 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). In Verse 15:24 it states "Then cometh the end" indicating that there is no time between His coming (parousia) in Verse 15:23 and the end when He puts down "all rule and authority and power". There is no reference here of people being taken up into Heaven.

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?

1 Corinthians
15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming .
15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: In 1 Corinthians 15:23, Christ will come for His bride and take His saints to Heaven.

Answer: The Greek word parousia (Strong's G3952) means "the coming, arrival, advent". It is the word that is accepted as the future visible return from heaven of Jesus.

So, the setting for 15:23 is Jesus' Second Coming. Delivering up the Kingdom occurs after the millennial reign, so these verses are a very high level summary of the timeline from His resurrection to His Second Coming to the end judgment.
The "they that are Christ's at his coming" in 15:23 refers to the Second Coming and the events at the Second Coming have believers resurrected and gathered with those believers still alive into the air as Jesus is descending, but not all the way to Heaven (see 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17).

In Verse 15:24 it states "Then cometh the end" indicating that there is no time between His coming (parousia) in Verse 15:23 and the end when He puts down "all rule and authority and power".

There is no reference here of people being taken up into Heaven.

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification
Part 1 Daniel 12 Obadiah 1 Matthew 13:27-40 Matthew 20:2-9 Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22) Matthew 24:37-39 Part 2 Matthew 24:28-41 Luke 17:26-37 Matthew 24:42-51 Luke 12:37-49 Matthew 25:1-13 John 10:9-10 Matthew 25:31-33 Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15) John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7 Ephesians 3:3-7 1 John 2:23 Jeremiah 31:35-37 Romans 11:17-22 Romans 1:16 Romans 2:8-11 Romans 10:11-13 Matthew 20:2-14> Acts 10:34-35 Part 3 John 14:2-4 1 Corinthians 15:20-25

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification

Part 1

Daniel 12
Obadiah 1
Matthew 13:27-40
Matthew 20:2-9
Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22)
Matthew 24:37-39

Part 2

Matthew 24:28-41
Luke 17:26-37
Matthew 24:42-51
Luke 12:37-49
Matthew 25:1-13
John 10:9-10
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15)
John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7
Ephesians 3:3-7
1 John 2:23
Jeremiah 31:35-37
Romans 11:17-22
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:8-11
Romans 10:11-13
Matthew 20:2-14>
Acts 10:34-35

Part 3

John 14:2-4
1 Corinthians 15:20-25

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: Because the rapture is imminent it must take place before the tribulation period can begin (Jas 5:8; 1 Thess 1:10; 4:15; 1 Cor 1:7; 15:51; Philip 3:20) The seven holy seasons of Lev 23 are fulfilled in the order in which they fall. What follows the feast of trumpets is the Day of Atonement, which was a day of Israel's national atonement coupled with the affliction of the soul. The Day of Atonement is to be fulfilled by the seven years of Tribulation , during which Israel will suffer afflictions leading up to her national repentance and restoration. And just as the feast of trumpets precedes the Day of Atonement, so will the rapture precede the seven years of tribulation. In looking at 1 Corinthians 15:52, it is clear the context of this passage is the church age, while the context of Revelation 11 is judgment during the Tribulation. First Corinthians 15:52 better harmonizes with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB, which says, "The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." Both passages speak of the rapture, and judgment is absent from both. The trumpets in both are the last or final command that the Lord gives to the church, resulting in the translation of all believers. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Answer: The key here is the statement in 15:52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible." It's not necessary to try and compare the trumpet with those in Revelation (which had not been written when 1 Corinthians was written). It's not required to explain the twinkling of an eye. 15:52 speaks of a resurrection. The resurrection occurs at Jesus' Second Coming as described in the following verses: To place 15:52 as a pre-tribulation rapture, this would be saying that there will be a resurrection before the tribulation. If there is a resurrection before the tribulation, there is a problem trying to explain who would be resurrected at the pre-tribulation rapture and who would be resurrected at Jesus' Second Coming. To have two resurrections would require an explanation of what criteria those in the resurrection before the tribulation would have that is different than the criteria for those resurrected at Jesus Second Coming after the tribulation. Since God is not a respecter of persons, His criteria is the same for everyone and the criteria cannot be different. Hence, there cannot be a resurrection at a pre-tribulation rapture. So, 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not set at a pre-tribulation rapture, but at Jesus' Second Coming, and is consistent with the verses in Daniel, John, 1 Thessalonians, and Revelation below. Daniel (resurrection) 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. John (resurrection) 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 1 Thessalonians (resurrection) 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Revelation (resurrection) 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Those that pierced him will be among the resurrected when he returns 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 occurs after the tribulation and at the time of Jesus' Second Coming.

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?

1 Corinthians
15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: Because the rapture is imminent it must take place before the tribulation period can begin (Jas 5:8; 1 Thess 1:10; 4:15; 1 Cor 1:7; 15:51; Philip 3:20)

The seven holy seasons of Lev 23 are fulfilled in the order in which they fall. What follows the feast of trumpets is the Day of Atonement, which was a day of Israel's national atonement coupled with the affliction of the soul.
The Day of Atonement is to be fulfilled by the seven years of Tribulation , during which Israel will suffer afflictions leading up to her national repentance and restoration.
And just as the feast of trumpets precedes the Day of Atonement, so will the rapture precede the seven years of tribulation.
In looking at 1 Corinthians 15:52, it is clear the context of this passage is the church age, while the context of Revelation 11 is judgment during the Tribulation.
First Corinthians 15:52 better harmonizes with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB, which says, "The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
Both passages speak of the rapture, and judgment is absent from both. The trumpets in both are the last or final command that the Lord gives to the church, resulting in the translation of all believers.

15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Answer: The key here is the statement in 15:52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible."

It's not necessary to try and compare the trumpet with those in Revelation (which had not been written when 1 Corinthians was written).
It's not required to explain the twinkling of an eye.
15:52 speaks of a resurrection.
The resurrection occurs at Jesus' Second Coming as described in the following verses:
To place 15:52 as a pre-tribulation rapture, this would be saying that there will be a resurrection before the tribulation.

If there is a resurrection before the tribulation, there is a problem trying to explain who would be resurrected at the pre-tribulation rapture and who would be resurrected at Jesus' Second Coming.
To have two resurrections would require an explanation of what criteria those in the resurrection before the tribulation would have that is different than the criteria for those resurrected at Jesus Second Coming after the tribulation.
Since God is not a respecter of persons, His criteria is the same for everyone and the criteria cannot be different.
Hence, there cannot be a resurrection at a pre-tribulation rapture.
So, 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not set at a pre-tribulation rapture, but at Jesus' Second Coming, and is consistent with the verses in Daniel, John, 1 Thessalonians, and Revelation below.

Daniel (resurrection)
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John (resurrection)
5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
1 Thessalonians (resurrection)
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Revelation (resurrection)
1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Those that pierced him will be among the resurrected when he returns

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 occurs after the tribulation and at the time of Jesus' Second Coming.

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification
Part 1 Daniel 12 Obadiah 1 Matthew 13:27-40 Matthew 20:2-9 Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22) Matthew 24:37-39 Part 2 Matthew 24:28-41 Luke 17:26-37 Matthew 24:42-51 Luke 12:37-49 Matthew 25:1-13 John 10:9-10 Matthew 25:31-33 Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15) John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7 Ephesians 3:3-7 1 John 2:23 Jeremiah 31:35-37 Romans 11:17-22 Romans 1:16 Romans 2:8-11 Romans 10:11-13 Matthew 20:2-14> Acts 10:34-35 Part 3 John 14:2-4 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7)

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification

Part 1

Daniel 12
Obadiah 1
Matthew 13:27-40
Matthew 20:2-9
Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22)
Matthew 24:37-39

Part 2

Matthew 24:28-41
Luke 17:26-37
Matthew 24:42-51
Luke 12:37-49
Matthew 25:1-13
John 10:9-10
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15)
John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7
Ephesians 3:3-7
1 John 2:23
Jeremiah 31:35-37
Romans 11:17-22
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:8-11
Romans 10:11-13
Matthew 20:2-14>
Acts 10:34-35

Part 3

John 14:2-4
1 Corinthians 15:20-25
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7)

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: Immediately previous to the time of great tribulation, all the dead saints will rise from their graves and all the living members of the church shall be caught up with them to meet Christ in the clouds. Answer: 1 Thessalonians 4:15 states that the timing of these verses is at the time of Jesus' Second Coming (the coming ), not before. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states that Jesus is coming from Heaven to Earth - there is no interpretation of anyone going to Heaven. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We see that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is also a restatement of John 14:3 and that we have confirmation that it occurs at Jesus' Second Coming and as He is returning to Earth. Note: In 1 Thess 4:17, one interpretation of "to meet " is as a formal reception where people go out and welcome a dignitary into the city. However, the word is used more often in writings from around the time of Paul to mean other meetings: Soldiers meeting in battle In the LXX, people meeting other people in 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, and 2 Chronicles And, in Matthew 8:34, people of a city meeting Jesus and telling him to "depart out of their coasts" So, can only be defined as a general meeting of people 1 Thess 4:16 is a description of a resurrection: Resurrections are described in Daniel 12:2, John 6:40, and Revelation 20:4 as occurring at Jesus' Second Coming. The resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not attributed to any time frame. The timing of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 can also be determined from 4:17 and the reference to clouds. Clouds are mentioned in the New Testament only for Jesus' Second Coming (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, and Revelation 1:7) and false prophets (2 Peter 2:17 and Jude 1:12). With the reference to clouds in 4:17 and the "coming of the Lord" in 4:15, these verses in 1 Thessalonians 4 occur at Jesus' Second Coming. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds [false prophets] that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; [a restatement of the false prophets in 2 Peter 2:17] In Verse 4:17, those that remain will be caught up in the air . The Greek is defined (Strongs 109) as "the lower air we breathe". The use of the word is also consistent with non-biblical writings to mean the lower air. So, the "catching up/gathering" will be in Earth's atmosphere. This is in complete agreement with Matthew 24:31, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other," and Mark 13:27, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Both of these events are stated as coming after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24). So, as Christ descends through the clouds (in the lower air) on his way to Earth (Matthew 24:30, Mark 13:26, and Luke 21:27), His elect will be caught up by angels (also into the lower air) and be brought to him. There is no interpretation of the Greek that would indicate the elect are gathered any higher than the lower air. The Greek word that was available for Paul to use to denote heaven or the "higher air" is (Strongs 3772) which he used twice in the letters to the Thessalonians (1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7), but used in 4:17 to contrast the use of in 4:16. 1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So, believers will remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming.

Will believers be removed from Earth before Jesus returns?

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: Immediately previous to the time of great tribulation, all the dead saints will rise from their graves and all the living members of the church shall be caught up with them to meet Christ in the clouds.

Answer: 1 Thessalonians 4:15 states that the timing of these verses is at the time of Jesus' Second Coming (the coming ), not before. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states that Jesus is coming from Heaven to Earth - there is no interpretation of anyone going to Heaven.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We see that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is also a restatement of John 14:3 and that we have confirmation that it occurs at Jesus' Second Coming and as He is returning to Earth.

Note: In 1 Thess 4:17, one interpretation of "to meet " is as a formal reception where people go out and welcome a dignitary into the city. However, the word is used more often in writings from around the time of Paul to mean other meetings:

Soldiers meeting in battle
In the LXX, people meeting other people in 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, and 2 Chronicles
And, in Matthew 8:34, people of a city meeting Jesus and telling him to "depart out of their coasts"

So, can only be defined as a general meeting of people

1 Thess 4:16 is a description of a resurrection:

Resurrections are described in Daniel 12:2, John 6:40, and Revelation 20:4 as occurring at Jesus' Second Coming.
The resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not attributed to any time frame.
The timing of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 can also be determined from 4:17 and the reference to clouds. Clouds are mentioned in the New Testament only for Jesus' Second Coming (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, and Revelation 1:7) and false prophets (2 Peter 2:17 and Jude 1:12).
With the reference to clouds in 4:17 and the "coming of the Lord" in 4:15, these verses in 1 Thessalonians 4 occur at Jesus' Second Coming.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds [false prophets] that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; [a restatement of the false prophets in 2 Peter 2:17]

In Verse 4:17, those that remain will be caught up in the air .

The Greek is defined (Strongs 109) as "the lower air we breathe".
The use of the word is also consistent with non-biblical writings to mean the lower air.
So, the "catching up/gathering" will be in Earth's atmosphere.
This is in complete agreement with Matthew 24:31, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other,"
and Mark 13:27, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."
Both of these events are stated as coming after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24).
So, as Christ descends through the clouds (in the lower air) on his way to Earth (Matthew 24:30, Mark 13:26, and Luke 21:27), His elect will be caught up by angels (also into the lower air) and be brought to him.
There is no interpretation of the Greek that would indicate the elect are gathered any higher than the lower air. The Greek word that was available for Paul to use to denote heaven or the "higher air" is (Strongs 3772) which he used twice in the letters to the Thessalonians (1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7), but used in 4:17 to contrast the use of in 4:16.
1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, believers will remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming.

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification
Part 1 Daniel 12 Obadiah 1 Matthew 13:27-40 Matthew 20:2-9 Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22) Matthew 24:37-39 Part 2 Matthew 24:28-41 Luke 17:26-37 Matthew 24:42-51 Luke 12:37-49 Matthew 25:1-13 John 10:9-10 Matthew 25:31-33 Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15) John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7 Ephesians 3:3-7 1 John 2:23 Jeremiah 31:35-37 Romans 11:17-22 Romans 1:16 Romans 2:8-11 Romans 10:11-13 Matthew 20:2-14> Acts 10:34-35 Part 3 John 14:2-4 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7) 1 Thess 4:13-18 (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Rev 1:7, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12)

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification

Part 1

Daniel 12
Obadiah 1
Matthew 13:27-40
Matthew 20:2-9
Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22)
Matthew 24:37-39

Part 2

Matthew 24:28-41
Luke 17:26-37
Matthew 24:42-51
Luke 12:37-49
Matthew 25:1-13
John 10:9-10
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15)
John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7
Ephesians 3:3-7
1 John 2:23
Jeremiah 31:35-37
Romans 11:17-22
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:8-11
Romans 10:11-13
Matthew 20:2-14>
Acts 10:34-35

Part 3

John 14:2-4
1 Corinthians 15:20-25
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7)
1 Thess 4:13-18 (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Rev 1:7, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12)

Multiple Topics

Multiple Topics
The next scripture addresses several topics Will believers be removed (Raptured) from Earth to avoid God's wrath or remain on Earth and be guarded and protected from God's wrath? When will Jesus come as a Thief in the Night? Will there be a secret rapture? Will believers remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming? 1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: For 1 Thessalonians 5:4, the interpretation is, "THAT the Day would overtake you = a purpose clause ("in order that, or for the purpose that"). Those in darkness are "purposed" for the Day of the Lord, but believers are not." 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. For 1 Thessalonians 5:9, the interpretation is,"FOR = Paul adds an explanation for the HOPE of our salvation: this hope is our deliverance from the coming wrath -- it is the resurrection or Rapture of believers that Paul had discussed in 1 Thess. 4:13-18. Church-age saints already will have been resurrected before the Day of the Lord's wrath begins. 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, This is the REASON for the RAPTURE = God has not destined us for wrath. It has not been assigned to us. Believers live in a completely different realm in which the wrath of God simply does not apply." Answer: 1 Thessalonians 5:2 makes the statement that the day of the Lord (Jesus' Second Coming) will come without notice as mentioned in 5:3. This does not mean secretly like a thief. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 5:4,6 makes the statement that the believers in the Lord will be on Earth at the time of Jesus' Second Coming in order to need to watch and be ready when Jesus comes. 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 1 Thessalonians 5:5 uses the idiom where light = righteousness and dark = evil as explained in Matthew 6:21-24. 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says that the believers will not experience God's wrath at the time of Jesus' Second Coming. What the Rapture interpretation incorrectly assumes is that people must be removed from the Earth in order to escape God's wrath. However, the scriptures say that the believers will be protected (not removed) from God's wrath. 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, For example, Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Strongs 5083, means to watch over, to guard, not to remove. The same thought of preservation is provided in 1 Thessalonians 5:23. This is why believers are not appointed to God's wrath - they will be guarded against the wrath. 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 13:25-30 provides a parable that states that the believers will be kept with the unbelievers until the second coming (the harvest). This parable describes that the wrath of God (burning the tares) will be applied to the non-believers that are mixed with the believers without harming the believers. Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. The scriptures are clear that both believers and unbelievers will be kept together until the second coming. Regarding the phrase, "thief in the night" in 5:2, the next verse mentions this occurs right before the "sudden destruction". The sudden destruction occurs at Jesus' Second Coming (Psalm 50:3-5, Isaiah 13:9-13, Joel 2:1-4, Mark 13:24-27, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, and 2 Peter 3:10-14. This places the "thief in the night" at Jesus' Second Coming. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. Regarding the same destructions, these verses contradict a secret rapture. The destructions make the event very known. All references in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9, 23 refer to Christ's Second Coming and not the period before the tribulation. God's protection from His wrath Thief in the night All events are known (not in secret) Believers stay on Earth until His Second Coming

The next scripture addresses several topics

Will believers be removed (Raptured) from Earth to avoid God's wrath or remain on Earth and be guarded and protected from God's wrath?
When will Jesus come as a Thief in the Night?
Will there be a secret rapture?
Will believers remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming?

1 Thessalonians
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: For 1 Thessalonians 5:4, the interpretation is, "THAT the Day would overtake you = a purpose clause ("in order that, or for the purpose that"). Those in darkness are "purposed" for the Day of the Lord, but believers are not."

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

For 1 Thessalonians 5:9, the interpretation is,"FOR = Paul adds an explanation for the HOPE of our salvation: this hope is our deliverance from the coming wrath -- it is the resurrection or Rapture of believers that Paul had discussed in 1 Thess. 4:13-18. Church-age saints already will have been resurrected before the Day of the Lord's wrath begins.

5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

This is the REASON for the RAPTURE = God has not destined us for wrath. It has not been assigned to us. Believers live in a completely different realm in which the wrath of God simply does not apply."

Answer: 1 Thessalonians 5:2 makes the statement that the day of the Lord (Jesus' Second Coming) will come without notice as mentioned in 5:3. This does not mean secretly like a thief.

5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:4,6 makes the statement that the believers in the Lord will be on Earth at the time of Jesus' Second Coming in order to need to watch and be ready when Jesus comes.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 uses the idiom where light = righteousness and dark = evil as explained in Matthew 6:21-24.

5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 says that the believers will not experience God's wrath at the time of Jesus' Second Coming. What the Rapture interpretation incorrectly assumes is that people must be removed from the Earth in order to escape God's wrath. However, the scriptures say that the believers will be protected (not removed) from God's wrath.

5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

For example, Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Strongs 5083, means to watch over, to guard, not to remove. The same thought of preservation is provided in 1 Thessalonians 5:23. This is why believers are not appointed to God's wrath - they will be guarded against the wrath.
5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 13:25-30 provides a parable that states that the believers will be kept with the unbelievers until the second coming (the harvest). This parable describes that the wrath of God (burning the tares) will be applied to the non-believers that are mixed with the believers without harming the believers.

Matthew
13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The scriptures are clear that both believers and unbelievers will be kept together until the second coming.

Regarding the phrase, "thief in the night" in 5:2, the next verse mentions this occurs right before the "sudden destruction". The sudden destruction occurs at Jesus' Second Coming (Psalm 50:3-5, Isaiah 13:9-13, Joel 2:1-4, Mark 13:24-27, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, and 2 Peter 3:10-14. This places the "thief in the night" at Jesus' Second Coming.

5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Regarding the same destructions, these verses contradict a secret rapture. The destructions make the event very known.

All references in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9, 23 refer to Christ's Second Coming and not the period before the tribulation.

God's protection from His wrath
Thief in the night
All events are known (not in secret)
Believers stay on Earth until His Second Coming

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification
Part 1 Daniel 12 Obadiah 1 Matthew 13:27-40 Matthew 20:2-9 Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22) Matthew 24:37-39 Part 2 Matthew 24:28-41 Luke 17:26-37 Matthew 24:42-51 Luke 12:37-49 Matthew 25:1-13 John 10:9-10 Matthew 25:31-33 Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15) John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7 Ephesians 3:3-7 1 John 2:23 Jeremiah 31:35-37 Romans 11:17-22 Romans 1:16 Romans 2:8-11 Romans 10:11-13 Matthew 20:2-14> Acts 10:34-35 Part 3 John 14:2-4 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7) 1 Thess 4:13-18 (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Rev 1:7, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12) 1 Thessalonians 5:2-23

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification

Part 1

Daniel 12
Obadiah 1
Matthew 13:27-40
Matthew 20:2-9
Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22)
Matthew 24:37-39

Part 2

Matthew 24:28-41
Luke 17:26-37
Matthew 24:42-51
Luke 12:37-49
Matthew 25:1-13
John 10:9-10
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15)
John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7
Ephesians 3:3-7
1 John 2:23
Jeremiah 31:35-37
Romans 11:17-22
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:8-11
Romans 10:11-13
Matthew 20:2-14>
Acts 10:34-35

Part 3

John 14:2-4
1 Corinthians 15:20-25
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7)
1 Thess 4:13-18 (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Rev 1:7, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12)
1 Thessalonians 5:2-23

Will believers remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming?

Will believers remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming?
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming : Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: There is another verse that is often cited as proof that the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation begins. It is the one I quoted at the beginning of this article -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The reason it is often presented as evidence of a Pre-Trib Rapture is because it states that "the day of the Lord" (The Tribulation and Millennium) will not occur until "the apostasy comes first." How does this relate to the timing of the Rapture? Because the word, "apostasy" can also mean "departure." And thus, this verse could be saying that the departure of the Church must occur before "the man of lawlessness" (the Antichrist) is revealed and the Tribulation begins. I can confidently conclude that the Bible teaches a Pre-tribulation rapture of the Church! Yes, there's a verse, a single verse, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, "for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition..." People read this verse and assume the rapture cannot come until the apostasy and Antichrist appear, which puts the Church in the midst of the Great Tribulation. Yet be careful about making assumptions. People have taken "that Day" ("the day of Christ" in verse 2) to mean the rapture. But it could be a synonym for "the day of the Lord" (that's how it is translated in the New American Standard Version). "The day of the Lord" is the period of time when God judges this evil world. In that case, the verse teaches that God's fierce judgments will not begin until the apostasy and Antichrist appear. The implication is that since the Thessalonians had seen neither, they knew the rapture had not occurred, since it comes first! In addition, the phrase "falling away" also has multiple definitions. It literally means "a departure." Some people assume that it refers to "a departure from the faith," but Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest suggests that it could mean, "the departure of the church, the rapture." If that is so, God's judgments will not come down until the Church goes up! In "2 Thessalonians 2 and the Rapture" by Paul D. Feinberg, "While Gundry thinks that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 on its own best fits a posttribulational rapture, another important reason is its relationship to 5:1-9. The connection between the two sections is through a Greek particle de. According to Gundry this particle has "a mixture of a continuative sense and a slightly adversative sense. In other words, the particle implies a shift in thought, but not without close connection with the foregoing thought. Sometimes the adversative sense drops out altogether." Gundry's argument is based on a misreading of the text, as the connection between 4:14-17 and 5:1-9 is not through the particle , but . This is Paul's usual way of introducing a new subject (e. g., 1 Thess. 4:9, 13). While it may be true that the two subjects discussed are not so different that they are completely unrelated to one another, that is they are a contrast to one another, it is also true that they are not simply the continuation of the same subject...I suggest that the topic remains the coming of the Lord, but that there is a discussion of two distinct phases of it." Source: https://www.pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Feinberg-TheRaptureand2Thessa.pdf Answer: in 'Apostasia' (2Thess.2:3) - Apostasy or 'Rapture'? Revised March 2019 by Terry Arnold, a "deceptive argument used by some is the use of Classical Greek instead of Koine Greek in order to establish the meaning of 'apostasia' to be a 'spatial departure' and thus a 'rapture'. Koine New Testament Greek replaced Classical Greek in about 300 BC and lasted until about 300 AD. Source: http://taministries.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Apostasia-is-not-the-Rapture-Printable-Booklet.pdf Some say that 'apostasia' is a later construction of the Classical Greek which they argue was used as a spatial departure. This is what some Greek scholars call the 'Lexical Fallacy'. (2) Outside of Koine Greek literature a spatial departure may be a secondary meaning but it is generally not the primary meaning. The flaw in the above argument is simple - the Scriptures were written in Koine Greek not Classical Greek...The first literal reference to a spatial departure in Greek is not found until 5th century AD." In "2 Thessalonians 2 and the Rapture" by Paul D. Feinberg, "This leads us to the noun that is found in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, apostasía. It is found in the Greek OT and has the idea of rebellion (Josh. 22:22), wickedness (Jer 2:19) and unfaithfulness (2 Chr. 28:19; 29:19; 33:19). Apostasía is found twice in the NT, in our text and in Acts 21:21. In Acts the noun is used to express the teaching of Paul which was to tell the Jews who lived among the Gentiles that they should forsake the teaching of Moses about circumcision. None of the uses of the noun in either testament indicate a physical departure of any sort. The point can be made even more strongly. If one searches for the uses of the noun "apostasy" in the 355 occurrences of the 300 year period between the second century B. C and the first century A. D., one will not find a single instance where this word refers to a physical departure. The uses outside biblical Greek are exactly parallel to those in it." Verses 2:1-3, 6, 8 are an extension of the idea presented in verses 1:6-10: 2 Thess 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 Thess 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Thess 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Jesus being revealed with angels (see also Matthew 25:31), flaming fire for vengeance (see also Luke 12:49) and the everlasting destruction (see also Luke 17:37 - destruction, not tribulation) are descriptions of Jesus' Second Coming. See also Paul's usage of in 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy as a parallel to 2 Thessalonians 2:8 to indicate Jesus' Second Coming. The usage of and in 2 Thessalonians 1-8 and meaning rebellion or apostasy (not a departure) indicate that these verses are describing Jesus' Second Coming and the gathering described occurs after "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". This puts the gathering to Christ after the tribulation as part of Jesus' Second Coming. Regarding the use of mentioned by Feinberg that Paul used to signify introducing a new subject (his claim that Paul changed the subject in 1 Thess from Jesus' Second Coming to a pretribulation rapture so 2 Thess 2:1-8 can also be associated with a pretribulation rapture), is used 16 times in the New Testament, 5 times to continue the same subject, 8 times to introduce a related subtopic to help explain the previous topic, and 3 times to introduce a new topic. So the general use of is to extend the previous topic. For Paul's writing's, he used it 6 times for a subtopic explaining the previous topic and 3 times to introduce a new topic - and the 3 uses for introducing a new topic were in 1 Corinthians where Paul was discussing at least 14 different topics, yet only used 3 times to change the topic. So Paul used the term more often as a way to provide an additional explanation. Note: Feinberg cites 1 Thessalonians 4:13 as a use of except that the Greek term in that verse is - which has a completely different meaning. is not used in 2 Thessalonians, so there is nothing in the Greek that indicates that 2 Thess 2:1-8 is changing the subject from 2 Thess 1:6-10 and all of 2 Thess is discussing Jesus' Second Coming. The description of people gathered to Christ in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 occurs after the tribulation and at Jesus' Second Coming. Believers will remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming.

2 Thessalonians
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming :

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Interpretation: There is another verse that is often cited as proof that the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation begins. It is the one I quoted at the beginning of this article -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

The reason it is often presented as evidence of a Pre-Trib Rapture is because it states that "the day of the Lord" (The Tribulation and Millennium) will not occur until "the apostasy comes first." How does this relate to the timing of the Rapture? Because the word, "apostasy" can also mean "departure." And thus, this verse could be saying that the departure of the Church must occur before "the man of lawlessness" (the Antichrist) is revealed and the Tribulation begins.

I can confidently conclude that the Bible teaches a Pre-tribulation rapture of the Church! Yes, there's a verse, a single verse, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, "for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition..." People read this verse and assume the rapture cannot come until the apostasy and Antichrist appear, which puts the Church in the midst of the Great Tribulation. Yet be careful about making assumptions. People have taken "that Day" ("the day of Christ" in verse 2) to mean the rapture. But it could be a synonym for "the day of the Lord" (that's how it is translated in the New American Standard Version). "The day of the Lord" is the period of time when God judges this evil world. In that case, the verse teaches that God's fierce judgments will not begin until the apostasy and Antichrist appear. The implication is that since the Thessalonians had seen neither, they knew the rapture had not occurred, since it comes first! In addition, the phrase "falling away" also has multiple definitions. It literally means "a departure." Some people assume that it refers to "a departure from the faith," but Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest suggests that it could mean, "the departure of the church, the rapture." If that is so, God's judgments will not come down until the Church goes up!

In "2 Thessalonians 2 and the Rapture" by Paul D. Feinberg, "While Gundry thinks that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 on its own best fits a posttribulational rapture, another important reason is its relationship to 5:1-9. The connection between the two sections is through a Greek particle de. According to Gundry this particle has "a mixture of a continuative sense and a slightly adversative sense. In other words, the particle implies a shift in thought, but not without close connection with the foregoing thought. Sometimes the adversative sense drops out altogether." Gundry's argument is based on a misreading of the text, as the connection between 4:14-17 and 5:1-9 is not through the particle , but . This is Paul's usual way of introducing a new subject (e. g., 1 Thess. 4:9, 13). While it may be true that the two subjects discussed are not so different that they are completely unrelated to one another, that is they are a contrast to one another, it is also true that they are not simply the continuation of the same subject...I suggest that the topic remains the coming of the Lord, but that there is a discussion of two distinct phases of it."

Source: https://www.pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Feinberg-TheRaptureand2Thessa.pdf

Answer: in 'Apostasia' (2Thess.2:3) - Apostasy or 'Rapture'? Revised March 2019 by Terry Arnold, a "deceptive argument used by some is the use of Classical Greek instead of Koine Greek in order to establish the meaning of 'apostasia' to be a 'spatial departure' and thus a 'rapture'. Koine New Testament Greek replaced Classical Greek in about 300 BC and lasted until about 300 AD.

Source: http://taministries.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Apostasia-is-not-the-Rapture-Printable-Booklet.pdf

Some say that 'apostasia' is a later construction of the Classical Greek which they argue was used as a spatial departure. This is what some Greek scholars call the 'Lexical Fallacy'. (2) Outside of Koine Greek literature a spatial departure may be a secondary meaning but it is generally not the primary meaning. The flaw in the above argument is simple - the Scriptures were written in Koine Greek not Classical Greek...The first literal reference to a spatial departure in Greek is not found until 5th century AD."

In "2 Thessalonians 2 and the Rapture" by Paul D. Feinberg, "This leads us to the noun that is found in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, apostasía. It is found in the Greek OT and has the idea of rebellion (Josh. 22:22), wickedness (Jer 2:19) and unfaithfulness (2 Chr. 28:19; 29:19; 33:19).

Apostasía is found twice in the NT, in our text and in Acts 21:21. In Acts the noun is used to express the teaching of Paul which was to tell the Jews who lived among the Gentiles that they should forsake the teaching of Moses about circumcision.

None of the uses of the noun in either testament indicate a physical departure of any sort. The point can be made even more strongly. If one searches for the uses of the noun "apostasy" in the 355 occurrences of the 300 year period between the second century B. C and the first century A. D., one will not find a single instance where this word refers to a physical departure. The uses outside biblical Greek are exactly parallel to those in it."

Verses 2:1-3, 6, 8 are an extension of the idea presented in verses 1:6-10:
2 Thess 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Thess 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2 Thess 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Jesus being revealed with angels (see also Matthew 25:31), flaming fire for vengeance (see also Luke 12:49) and the everlasting destruction (see also Luke 17:37 - destruction, not tribulation) are descriptions of Jesus' Second Coming.

See also Paul's usage of in 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy as a parallel to 2 Thessalonians 2:8 to indicate Jesus' Second Coming.

The usage of and in 2 Thessalonians 1-8 and meaning rebellion or apostasy (not a departure) indicate that these verses are describing Jesus' Second Coming and the gathering described occurs after "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". This puts the gathering to Christ after the tribulation as part of Jesus' Second Coming.

Regarding the use of mentioned by Feinberg that Paul used to signify introducing a new subject (his claim that Paul changed the subject in 1 Thess from Jesus' Second Coming to a pretribulation rapture so 2 Thess 2:1-8 can also be associated with a pretribulation rapture), is used 16 times in the New Testament, 5 times to continue the same subject, 8 times to introduce a related subtopic to help explain the previous topic, and 3 times to introduce a new topic. So the general use of is to extend the previous topic.

For Paul's writing's, he used it 6 times for a subtopic explaining the previous topic and 3 times to introduce a new topic - and the 3 uses for introducing a new topic were in 1 Corinthians where Paul was discussing at least 14 different topics, yet only used 3 times to change the topic. So Paul used the term more often as a way to provide an additional explanation. Note: Feinberg cites 1 Thessalonians 4:13 as a use of except that the Greek term in that verse is - which has a completely different meaning. is not used in 2 Thessalonians, so there is nothing in the Greek that indicates that 2 Thess 2:1-8 is changing the subject from 2 Thess 1:6-10 and all of 2 Thess is discussing Jesus' Second Coming.

The description of people gathered to Christ in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 occurs after the tribulation and at Jesus' Second Coming. Believers will remain on Earth until Jesus' Second Coming.

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification
Part 1 Daniel 12 Obadiah 1 Matthew 13:27-40 Matthew 20:2-9 Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22) Matthew 24:37-39 Part 2 Matthew 24:28-41 Luke 17:26-37 Matthew 24:42-51 Luke 12:37-49 Matthew 25:1-13 John 10:9-10 Matthew 25:31-33 Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15) John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7 Ephesians 3:3-7 1 John 2:23 Jeremiah 31:35-37 Romans 11:17-22 Romans 1:16 Romans 2:8-11 Romans 10:11-13 Matthew 20:2-14> Acts 10:34-35 Part 3 John 14:2-4 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7) 1 Thess 4:13-18 (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Rev 1:7, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12) 1 Thessalonians 5:2-23 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, 6, 8

Summary - Remove these verses from any Pre-Tribulation Rapture Justification

Part 1

Daniel 12
Obadiah 1
Matthew 13:27-40
Matthew 20:2-9
Matthew 24:3-14 (Matthew 10:21-22)
Matthew 24:37-39

Part 2

Matthew 24:28-41
Luke 17:26-37
Matthew 24:42-51
Luke 12:37-49
Matthew 25:1-13
John 10:9-10
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 28:19-20 (Romans 10:13-15)
John 5:23, 5:42-43, 6:45, 8:42, 14:7
Ephesians 3:3-7
1 John 2:23
Jeremiah 31:35-37
Romans 11:17-22
Romans 1:16
Romans 2:8-11
Romans 10:11-13
Matthew 20:2-14>
Acts 10:34-35

Part 3

John 14:2-4
1 Corinthians 15:20-25
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, John 6:40, 44, 54, John 11:23-24, 1 Thess 4:16, Revelation 1:5, 7)
1 Thess 4:13-18 (Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Rev 1:7, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 1:12)
1 Thessalonians 5:2-23
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, 6, 8