Quotes from Prophecies & Promises - The "Heartland" Model
Bruce H. Porter, Rod L. Meldrum, Digital Legend Press and Publishing, New York, 2009
Chapter 8: The Prophecies and Promises of This Land - Page 77 to 78:
The prophetic record is specific and inspired about the Promised Land and must take precedence over all physical and geographic descriptions. That said, when physical and geographical passages are clear, they will match the more important descriptions set forth by the prophecies and promises in the text, thus establishing an internal consistency within the Book of Mormon.
False logic - Prophecies are judged according to the record - not vice versa
Regarding the Book of Mormon
- The words of the Book of Mormon take precedence over Prophecy.
- The words of the Book of Mormon are a factual record - translated by the power of a Seer - "...a seer is greater than a prophet" (Mosiah 5:76 [RLDS], 8:15 [LDS]).
- Prophecy must be consistent with the word descriptions in the Book of Mormon - not vice versa.
- Prophecies require interpretation - it makes them open to be misinterpreted.
Example:
Heleman 2:3 [3:3] ...there were an exceeding great many who departed out of the land of Zarahemla, and went forth unto the land northward, to inherit the land;
Heleman 2:7 [3:7] And there being but little timber upon the face of the land,...
Heleman 2:10 [3:10] And it came to pass as timber was exceeding scarce in the land northward, they did send forth much by the way of shipping; and thus they did enable the people in the land northward, that they might build many cities, both of wood and of cement (smeared / mortar).
- This geography is clear
- Where in the eastern US has there been a place without timber in the north that is reachable via shipping from a place southward that has timber?
- No place
Chapter 1: The Book of Mormon Geography - Current Methods
There simply are no geographical passages in the Book of Mormon that can be considered so perfectly clear and unambiguous as to leave no doubt regarding its identification with an actual known physical location. (pp. 8-9)
It would appear that any method using only "passages having to do with geography" as the first or primary witness is going to end up falling short of any definite conclusions, making that approach appear to have serious shortcomings. (pp. 13)
There simply are no geographical passages in the Book of Mormon that can be considered so perfectly clear and unambiguous as to leave no doubt regarding its identification with an actual known physical location. (pp. 8-9)
It would appear that any method using only "passages having to do with geography" as the first or primary witness is going to end up falling short of any definite conclusions, making that approach appear to have serious shortcomings. (pp. 13)
Regarding the Book of Mormon
There are several clear geographical passages in the Book of Mormon (Proofs) that occur in only one geographic location in the world (and in proper relative orientation to each other)
There are several clear geographical passages in the Book of Mormon (Proofs) that occur in only one geographic location in the world (and in proper relative orientation to each other)
- Intersecting Valleys
- Hill Riplah, Valley West, and Valley East of the river Sidon
- Hill Amnihu
- Destruction of Moroni, Jerusalem, Mocum, and Onihah by water
- Plains in Mesoamerica
- Narrow Passages
Criteria for a Proof
- The geography has to be clear.
- Describes the type of geography (lake, valley, hill, river, etc.)
- Has other landmarks that match the descriptions (e.g. other geography, etc.).
- Located in the correct general area of the Book of Mormon lands.
- Correct North / South / East / West part of the Book of Mormon lands.
- Most importantly, the relative placements of the geography described in the Book of Mormon match a real-world description and relative locations of real geography.
- Geographic places are located with the correct North / South / East / West relative directions between other places.
- There is only one place in the world the geography exists.
- To be a "Proof", the real geography was not known in 1830.
- Proves the Book of Mormon is the only source that provides a correct description.
Chapter 15: A Conclusion and Review - Page 200:
"The application of geographical passages of necessity and logic be subordinate to the inspired prophecies and promises in the Book of Mormon itself. Any theory claiming to establish the lands of the Book of Mormon must first pass the tests outlined by these spiritual guides before application of 'real world' evidence or physical features of the landscape."
Is this a valid conclusion?
The prophecies are in the Book of Mormon and the geography is also in the Book of Mormon
- So, can one be negated without the other?
- No, the same source describes both.
- Both must be correct, otherwise, both cannot be justified
- Either one being wrong negates the premise that the Book of Mormon is correct
- How do you determine that both are "correct" or both are "incorrect"?
Focusing on this part of the statement in Chapter 15: A Conclusion and Review (p.200)
- "...geographical passages of necessity and logic be subordinate to the inspired prophecies and ..."
- As previously stated, either both are correct or both cannot be justified.
- If the prophesies are not correct, then the Book of Mormon is not inspired.
- If the geographical information are not correct, then the Book of Mormon did not take place anywhere in the world and the book is fiction.
- So, Meldrum's conclusion is not justified.
- One is not subordinate to the other - they are co-equal.
Proving one or both are false
- Geography
- If the BoM geography does not match any real-world geography, then the BoM geography is incorrect (or a work of fiction) and the prophesies are also not justified.
- If the geography is fiction, then the prophecies are likewise fiction.
- Prophecies
- Question: How do you determine that the interpretation of prophecy is correct?
- Answer: You usually have to wait for the prophecy to come true - actual events prove the prophecy.
Book of Mormon vs. Revelation / Prophecy
The Restoration has two unique sources of scriptures
- Book of Mormon - BoM (record of first-hand accounts and prophecies)
- Doctrine and Covenants - D&C (revelations which contain some prophecies)
What should you have to believe if they disagree (or you think they disagree)?
- If you accept the D&C, then the BoM would have to be not true.
- If the BoM is not true, the source of the BoM (Joseph Smith, Jr. the seer) is not true.
- If Joseph Smith the seer is not true, then other sources from Joseph Smith (i.e. the D&C) cannot be assumed to be true - negating the premise that the D&C is true.
- If the BoM record is not true - then you can't trust anything in the BoM.
- But prophecies are contained in the BoM.
- So you can't trust the prophecies in the BoM.
- But some people use the prophecies to help prove the BoM geography.
- If you accept the BoM, then the prophecies in the D&C would have to be not true.
- Or, your interpretation of the D&C would not be true (or, in reality, the D&C really is true, but with a different interpretation than your interpretation).
- Or, the D&C is just not true (i.e. LDS D&C 132 - which tries to negate BoM Jacob 2).
SUMMARY:
- The Book of Mormon was translated by a Seer - the power of a Seer is greater than a prophet.
- Meaning the Book of Mormon is a "truth" source.
- Prophesies do not "take precedence" over what is written in the Book of Mormon.
- The prophesies and geographic descriptions in the Book of Mormon are "co-equal" to each other.
- There are six very specific geographic descriptions ("proofs") that can be found in the world.
- If the Book of Mormon and the D&C are both inspired, there will be no disagreements between them.
- If you think there is a disagreement between them, then you must accept the Book of Mormon scriptures. If you try to accept the D&C and not the Book of Mormon, then you have to accept that both the Book of Mormon and the D&C are both false and not inspired.
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